Email: firstname.lastname@example.org ----- October 26, 2009 ----- Dr. R.M. de Jonge ©, email@example.com ----- Introduction ----- The AAPS is the Ancient Artifact Preservation Society. It held its First Conference on Ancient Copper in the town of Houghton, on the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, July 10-12, 2009 (Refs.1-3). One of the activities during the conference was a visit to the petroglyphs near Copper Harbor, on the northern tip of Keweenaw Peninsula. The most beautiful glyph is a hugh sailing boat, shown in Fig.1. In antiquity, the natural harbor of this town was used for the transport of copper ingots to Lake Michigan, and further south along the Mississippi River, as well as all the way to the east, to the Saint Lawrence River. It was also important for reaching Isle Royale, some 50 miles to the northeast, another area of extensive mining operations (Refs.4,5,20-22). ----- The petroglyph site near Copper Harbor is west of town near the end of the local bay. The glyph of the sailing boat has a width of 36cm, and a height of 17.5cm, including the top of the mast 19 cm. The hull of the ship has a height of 7cm, including the lower part of the mast almost 11cm. The sail has a width of 14.5cm. The carved lines are not V-shaped, but more U-shaped, having an upper width of 3.5 mm, and a depth of 2 mm. The carving was made on the ground, on a flat, natural area of the bedrock, consisting of sandstone. It is an oblong area of stone, having a height varying from roughly 30 to 60cm (Ref.3). ----- The sailing boat should be considered as seaworthy (Refs.6,7). Some dimensions of this large boat are interesting. The length of the hull equals five times the height of the sail. The length of the sail equals the height of the mast, and both are twice the height of the sail. The height of the mast equals six times the width (or height) of the lower part of it, below the sail.- Finally, it should be noted, that the carved line within the sail makes a long zigzag all the way to the top. For the time being, it appears to be a mysterious feature of this petroglyph. ----- When studying the glyph, it appears that the left edge of the sail has been accidently flaked off (although it might have been done on purpose). Probably, it already happened when the glyph was carved, and apparently, people decided to make the best of the situation. However, it is also possible that the flaking off happened in a (much) later time period. In that case a careful restauration may now be observed.- Note, that a recent flaking off occurred near the sail, at the right si-de above. It just damaged a tiny part of the upper right corner of the glyph. ----- Date of the Glyph ----- The hull of the boat consists of five rows of planks, and the sail appears to be made of seven strips of cloth. When studying these horizontal elements of the carving, it appears to us, that in first instance, a dynasty encoding is most likely to be intended (Refs.8-10). Including the lower part of the mast the hull consists of 5+1= 6 elements, encoding the first six dynasties of Egypt. These are known to us as the Old Kingdom. The 5 rows of planks correspond to the first five dynasties, when the ancient Egyptian civilization flourished. The lower part of the mast corresponds to the 6th Dynasty, when the culture of Egypt was declining. ----- The sail has seven strips of cloth, encoding the next, seven dynasties. It appears, that the upper strip provides the approximate date of the glyph. It corresponds to the 6+7= 13th Dynasty (c. 1794-1641 BC). The date of the glyph appears to coincide with the end of this dynasty, c.1640 BC.- Note, that the top of the mast peaks in two layers, which correspond to the 12th and 13th Dynasties. It is correct, that the culture of the Middle Kingdom started to decline at the end of the 12th Dynasty, a process which continued in the 13th Dynasty. Note also, that the bottom of the mast was placed on the fourth layer of the hull. It is correct, that the culture of the Old Kingdom started to decline at the end of the 5th Dynasty, a process which continued in the 6th Dynasty. ----- Round Trip ----- Because of the dynasty encodings, it appears that the sailing voyage started at the Nile Delta of Egypt, at 30°N. Including the lower part of the mast, the hull consists of 5+1= 6 elements, corresponding to the Strait of Gibraltar, 6° to the north, at 30+6= 36°N. The carving of the ship is applied on the rock in such a way, that the top of the mast is pointing south. So, it appears, that people choose for the Southern Crossing of the Ocean, which is most convenient, indeed (Refs.8-13). ----- The whole ship has 6+7= 13 elements, corresponding to the mouth of the Gambia River, West Africa, at 13°N. However, it also consists of two big parts (the hull and the sail), encoding the southern Cape Verde Islands, 2° to the north, at 13+2= 15°N. The sailing direction from these is-lands, with the wind and the current, corresponds to the latitude of the Nile Delta, 30°SSW. The sailing boat consists of two parts, encoding the sailing distance of 2 (Egyptian) Moiras= 20°. The hull has 5 layers, encoding the place of arrival, Cape São Rock (the Holy Rock), Brazil, at 5°S. Including the mast the hull consists of 5+1= 6 elements, corresponding to the north coast of Suriname (former Dutch Guyana), at 6°N. The whole ship has 6+7= 13 elements, encoding the North Cape of South America, at 13°N. It has two big parts, corresponding to Cape Gracias à Dios, the east cape of Honduras, at 13+2= 15°N. The whole ship has 13 elements, encoding the sailing direction from Cape Catoche, Yucatan, to the SE Cape of Cuba, 13°ENE. The ship consists of two parts, corresponding to the sailing distance of 2 moiras= 2°, equal to the distance from the north coast of Cuba to Florida. Finally, one sailed to the Mississippi Delta, at 30°N, the same latitude as the Nile Delta. ----- The glyph of the sailing boat is located at Copper Harbor, one of the most important natural harbors for the transport of copper ingots in the area. It consists of 6+7= 13 elements, encoding both the latitude of 30+13= 43°N, and the complementary latitude of 90-43= 47°N, exactly at the level of Copper Harbor. Most ingots were shipped along the Mississippi River to the south. The sail consists of 7 strips of cloth, encoding the important confluence with the Ohio River, 7° above the Mississippi Delta, at 30+7= 37°N (Refs.8,14). The sailing boat consists of two parts, also encoding the island of Bermuda in the Ocean, 2° above the Delta, at 30+2= 32°N. So, part of the copper was transported via Bermuda to the Azores. ----- The hull of the boat has 5 layers, corresponding to Cape Hatteras South, at 30+5= 35°N. Including the lower part of the mast, it contains 5+1= 6 elements, corresponding to Cape Hatteras North, at 30+6= 36°N. Both are the east capes of the US. The whole ship has 13 elements, encoding America’s Stonehenge, New Hampshire, and the south point of Nova Scotia, at 30+13= 43°N. America’s Stonehenge is the most important megalithic monument of North America (c.2400 BC). It was a training center for learning how to cross the Ocean. Part of the copper ingots arrived here from the mouth of the Saint Lawrence River (Refs.8,15,16). ----- From the south point of Nova Scotia people sailed in the direction of the Azores. One oriented at Cape Race, Newfoundland, which is the East Cape of North America, at the complementary latitude of 90-43= 47°N. This is the latitude of Copper Harbor, where the glyph of the sailing boat is situated. The two big parts of the ship correspond to the initial sailing direction (ISD) from Cape Race to the two islands of the West Azores, 20°ESE, with the wind and the current, as well as the sailing distance of 2 Moiras= 20°. The two parts also encode the Central Azores, 2° above the Strait of Gibraltar, at 36+2= 38°N, as well as the two islands of the East Azores, and finally, the two islands of Madeira. ----- Copper Trade ----- When studying the glyph of the sailing boat, it turns out that both ends of the ship are different. The left end is high, protecting the sailors and the cargo from the waves of the sea. So, the left end is the stem or the fore-part of the ship, and the right end is the stern or the hind-part. The top of the mast is pointing south, as mentioned earlier, so the ship is sailing to the east. This means that the ship is sailing home, fully loaded with copper ingots (Refs.4,5,8,13)! Note, that the rec-tangular sail closely resembles a copper ingot, to illustrate this statement. The ship has a total of 13 elements, corresponding to the latitude of America’s Stonehenge, N.H., and the south point of Nova Scotia, at 30+13= 43°N (Refs.8,15,16). It is the complementary latitude of Copper Harbor, at 90-47= 43°N. So, the boat is leaving the East Coast of North America to cross the Atlantic Ocean. ----- There are two important trade routes in North America: one going south to the Mississippi Delta, and one going east to the mouth of the Saint Lawrence River. The carving of the ship is applied on the rock in such a way, that the top of the mast is pointing south. On top of the mast are two arrows, each consisting of two pieces of line. The mast and the sail contain together 1+7= 8 ele-ments, and the hull contains 5 elements. The mast and the sail point south. So, it appears that 8/13x100= 62% of the copper was shipped to the Delta. The hull of the ship is pointing to the east. The length of the hull equals five times the height of the sail, confirming the 5 elements. So, 5/13x100= 38% of the copper was transported to the Bay of Saint Lawrence.- A source from c. 1458 BC reports percentages of 61%, and 39%, respectively, at this later date (Ref.17). ----- The dynasty encodings suggest, that the boat is an Egyptian trading vessel from the Nile Delta, at 30°N. This latitude corresponds with the 30 days of a month. The 5 rows of planks and the 7 strips of cloth form together 5+7= 12 elements, corresponding to the 12 months of a year. The height of the mast equals six times the width (or height) of the lower part of it. It emphasizes the latitude of the Strait of Gibraltar, at 30+6= 36°N. However, it also stresses the c.360 days of the year. These time encodings suggest that the petroglyph provides information about the yearly transport of copper to the Old World. This transport is expressed in copper ingots, of course, because the sail resembles a copper ingot. ----- Note, that an extra, vertical piece of line runs from the hull to the sail at the left side of the mast. The ship consists of two big parts (the hull and the sail), and the hull has five rows of planks, encoding a yearly transport of 20,000 copper ingots to the Old World (a number of five figures). The length of the sail equals the height of the mast, and both equal twice the height of the sail. The zigzag all the way to the top of the sail cuts the surface area of it in half. It stresses the im-portance of the number two, at least twice.- The lower part of the mast joints both parts. It also has a height of two elements, and a width of two elements. It is situated on the four lower rows of planks of the hull, encoding another 2,000 copper ingots (a number of four figures). So, the to-tal yearly export was 22,000 copper ingots (c.1640 BC).- A source from c.1458 BC reports a yearly export of 25,000 ingots at this later date (Ref.17). So, it appears that the order of magnitude is correct, and, probably, also the exact figure. ----- The next question might be: How many ships were involved in this trade? The upper layer of the hull is most important, because it is the deck of the ship. It bends via the hind-part into the lowest layer. The deck layer symbolizes the whole ship, and the lowest layer symbolizes the hull. Both layers represent the circumference of the hull. The ship consists of two big parts, and the circumference of the hull consists of two layers, encoding 20 ships (a number of two figures). The hull has five layers, and the keel, at the bottom of the hull, consists of one layer, encoding another 5 ships (a number of one figure). At the forepart of the ship the upper layer bends around the hull, confirming it. So, a total of 25 ships were involved in the trade (c.1640 BC).- A source from c.1458 BC reports a number of 27 ships at this later date (Ref.17). ----- The next, important question might be: What was the duration of the round trip? During sailing on the Ocean people oriented on the sky. The two upper layers of the sail point to this sky (Fig.1). It appears, that the time period is expressed in days. The two upper elements suggest, that the 30 days of the month (a number of two figures) are important, because these are determined by the Moon. The mast consists of two arrows on top, and a bottom part below the sail, forming together three elements, which encode a duration of the round trip of 300 days (a number of three figures).- The ship now consists of 3 parts: the hull, the sail, and the mast. The elements which form the circumference of the hull symbolize a round trip. Within this circumference are three layers, confirming the 300 days (a number of three figures) (c.1640 BC). ----- The carved line within the sail makes a long zigzag all the way to the top (and back). It illustrates the importance of the duration of sailing back and forth across the Ocean. The two upper layers of the sail, which point to the sky, may also suggest that the 12 months of the year (a number of two figures) are important. These are determined by both the Sun and the Moon. The quantity may also be expressed in months. The whole ship, and the two arrows on top, also encode a duration of the round trip of 10 months (a number of two figures). These 10 months are equal to the 10x30= 300 days, just mentioned (c.1640 BC).- A source from c.1458 BC reports a duration of 290 days at this later date (Ref.17). ----- In a year the 25 ships have to transport a total number of 22,000 ingots across the Ocean. If the round trip would have lasted a year, or 365 days, the metal cargo of each ship would have been 22,000/25= 880 ingots. However, the round trip last shorter, only 300 days. So, on the average, the cargo of each ship equals (300/365)x880= 723 copper ingots (c.1640 BC).- A source from c. 1458 BC reports 736 ingots at this later date (Ref.17). ----- The last, important question might be: What was the overall export of copper ingots to the Old World before c.1640 BC? The bottom of the mast is placed on the four lower layers of the hull. It means, that copper trade began at the end of the Fourth Dynasty when America was discovered. The rectangular sail, with four sides, resembles a copper ingot, confirming it. So, copper trade began at the start of the Fifth Dynasty, c.2500 BC. It coincided with the discovery of America via the Atlantic (Refs.8-13). This glyph dates from c.1640 BC, about 860 years later. If the yearly transport of copper ingots would have been all the time the same, the total copper export would have been 860x22,000= 19 million ingots. However, this is not realistic, of course. It may be expected, that the (yearly) copper export slowly increased as time progressed. So, the real, overall copper export will be much lower. ----- It is probable, that the petroglyph of the sailing boat was made, because the overall copper export reached a nice, round figure. The lower part of the mast and the seven strips of cloth of the sail form together 1+7= 8 elements. The lower part of the mast encodes an export of 10 million in-gots (a number of eight figures). The four layers of planks below the mast, and the seven elements of the sail, encode another 4 million ingots (a number of seven figures). So, it appears, that the overall export was 14 million copper ingots (c.1640 BC). This is a nice, round figure, indeed. It is 74% of the roughly estimated number of 19 million ingots, shown above. A source from c.1458 BC reports an overall export of 18 million copper ingots at this later date (Ref.17). If it is assumed, that the yearly export of ingots remained the same in the short time period between c.1640 BC and c.1458 BC, an additional (1640-1458)x22,000= 4 million copper ingots are predicted. It confirms the overall export of 14+4= 18 million copper ingots in c.1458 BC. It appears, that the order of magnitude is correct, and, probably also, both exact figures.Standard Ingot ----- To obtain an accurate picture of the international copper trade, knowledge of the mass of the Standard Ingot is required. Fortunately, this mass is known from several external sources (Ref.17-19). However, the sailing boat of Copper Harbor also provides this figure. The mass of the Standard Ingot is related to the trade of noble metals (silver and gold), which is much older. For a long time past these noble metals were weighed in units of carats, corresponding with 0.20 gram. The carat is the constant mass of a seed of the St. John’s bread or carob tree (Ceratonia siliqua). Including the lower part of the mast, the sail consists of 7+1= 8 elements, and the hull has 5 layers, which show that the mass of the Standard Ingot equals 80,000 carats (a number of five figures), or 80x0.20= 16 kg. ----- With the aid of the Standard Ingot, the yearly transport of copper across the Ocean can be calculated, 22x16= 352 tons/year. The average metal cargo of each ship can also be calculated: 0,723 x16= 11.6 tons of copper. The overall export to the Old World was 14,000x16= 224,000 tons of copper. All these data are valid for the end of the 13th Dynasty (c.1640 BC).- However, the copper trade continued till c.1200 BC (Refs.4,5,13). If it assumed, that the yearly export remained the same during this time period, an additional quantity of 352x(1640-1200)= c.155,000 tons of copper would have been transported. It means, that a total quantity of 224+155= c.379 thousand tons of copper was shipped across the Ocean (c.1200 BC).- After inspection of the whole mining area around Upper Michigan, a total amount of disappeared copper between 250 to 500 thousand tons was estimated by others in the field (Refs.4,5). So, our conclusion is that its destination can now be understood. ----- Discussion ----- Ancient petroglyphs of seaworthy sailing boats are very rare, and this one is a beautiful example. Around the Mediterranean there are only a few others from before 1000 BC, and in the whole of Europe there is not a single one of this quality. This American petroglyph tells the whole story of the copper trade across the Ocean with the Old World before the end of the 13th Dynasty, c.1640 BC. We hope, that AAPS will protect and preserve this site for posterity (Ref.1). ----- Patterns on a pot from the surroundings of Poverty Point, NE Louisiana (first millennium BC), show, that a total of 24 million copper ingots were exported across the Ocean (Ref.18). It corresponds with a mass of 24,000x16= 384 thousand tons of copper. The Battersea Shield from London, England, dated c.190 BC, confirms, that in North America c.60% of the copper was shipped to the south, and c.40% was transported to the east (Ref.19). This bronze shield confirms, that a total of 24 million copper ingots were exported to the Old World. ----- Tin Trade ----- In the Old World tin was a very scarce metal. Although generally unknown, a lot of it was imported from South America (Ref.17). The sailing boat of Copper Harbor also provides an accurate description of the simultaneous tin trade. The glyph consists of two big parts (the hull and the sail), corresponding to Isle Royale, at 47+1= 48°N, and the north coast of Lake Superior, at 47+2= 49°N. Isle Royale is located 18° above the Mississippi Delta (at 30°N), referring to the tin mines near the present town of Oruro, Bolivia, 18° below the equator, at 18°S. The north coast of Lake Superior is located 19° above the Delta, referring to the far more important mining area just east of Lake of Poopó, near the present town of Potosi, Bolivia, at 19°S. The tin from Bolivia was transported (as ingots) along the coast to the north, and from the Pacific to the Atlantic. The nine islands of the Azores encode the important latitude of the isthmus of Panama, at 9°N. ----- In the Old World bronze was made by alloying the copper with 10% tin. The duration of the round trip on the Ocean was shown to be 10 months (see above, c.1640 BC). This number confirms the percentage of tin, just mentioned (10%). So, during the whole Bronze Age the export of tin was 10% of the export of copper (Refs.17,19).- So, what was the overall export of tin ingots to the Old World before c.1640 BC? Ten percent of the export of copper ingots! The lower part of the mast and the seven strips of cloth encode an export of 1 million ingots (a number of seven figures). The five rows of planks of the hull and the lower part of the mast form together 5+1= 6 elements. The four layers of planks below the mast now encode another 4 hundred thousand ingots (a number of six figures). So, it is confirmed that the overall export was 1.4 million tin ingots from Bolivia (c.1640 BC).- Note, that the seven strips of cloth of the sail correspond with the density of tin, 7 g/cm3 (seven times heavier than water). ----- References ----- 1. Ancient Artifact Preservation Society (AAPS) Website: www.aaapf.org 2. Website: www.slideshare.net/JudyMJohnson/aaps-news-august09-pdf 3. Website: www.slideshare.net/JudyMJohnson/wheeler-petroglyphs-conf09 4. Rydholm, C.F., Michigan Copper, The Untold Story, Winter Cabin Books, Marquette, 2006 (ISBN 0-9744679-2-8) 5. Drier, R.W., and Du Temple, O.J., Prehistoric Copper Mining in the Lake Superior Region, A Collection of Reference Articles, published privately, 1961, and reprinted in 2005 6. Casson, L., Ships and Seafaring in Ancient Times, British Museum Press, 1994 (ISBN 0-7141-1735-8) 7. Wachsmann, S., Seagoing Ships and Seamanship in the Bronze Age Levant, College Station, Texas, 1998 8. De Jonge, R.M., and Wakefield, J.S., How the Sungod Reached America, c.2500 BC, A Guide to Megalithic Sites, MCS Inc., 2002 (ISBN 0-917054-19-9). Available: MCS Inc., Box 3392, Kirkland, Wa 98083, also on CD. Website: www.howthesungod.com 9. De Jonge, R.M., "The Discovery of Three Continents (Santo Stefano, North Sardinia, Italy, c. 2300 BC)", Ancient American, Vol.12, No.76, pgs.28-29 (2007) 10. De Jonge, R.M., "Wheeler’s Petroglyph (Copper Country, Michigan, 2500-1200 BC)", to be published 11. De Jonge, R.M., and Wakefield, J.S., "Greenland, Bridge between the Old and New World, c.2500 BC", Ancient American, Vol.11, No.67, pgs.12-20 (2006) 12. De Jonge, R.M., and Wakefield, J.S., "The Discovery of the Atlantic Islands", Ancient American, Vol.13, No.81, pgs.18-25 (2008) 13. Wakefield, J.S., and De Jonge, R.M., Rocks & Rows, Sailing Routes across the Atlantic and the Copper Trade, MCS Inc, 2010 (ISBN 0-917054-20-2). Available: MCS Inc, Box 3392, Kirkland, Wa USA 98033. 14. De Jonge, R.M., and Wakefield, J.S., "The Three Rivers Petroglyph, A Guidepost for River Travel in America, c.1500 BC", Migration & Diffusion, Vol.3, No.12, pgs.74-100 (2002) 15. De Jonge, R.M., and Wakefield, J.S., "A Nautical Center for Crossing the Ocean, America’s Stonehenge, New Hampshire, c.2200 BC", Migration & Diffusion, Vol.4, No.15, pgs.60-100 (2003) 16. De Jonge, R.M., and Wakefield, J.S., "The Embden Dragon Petroglyph, A Copper Trading Route of the Bronze Age (Kennebec River, Embden, Maine, c.1500 BC)", Midwestern Epigraphic Journal, Vol.18/9, pgs. 56-82, 2004-5 (ISSN 1932-5703) 17. De Jonge, R.M., The Phaistos Disc Decoded, New Testimony of a Lost Civilization, Mid-western Epigraphic Journal, Vol.20, 111-115 (2006), and Vol.21, 74-80 (2007), to be published 18. De Jonge, R.M., "Copper Trade with the Old World (Poverty Point, NE Louisiana)", to be published 19. De Jonge, R.M., "The Battersea Shield (River Thames, London, c.190 BC)", to be published 20. Fell, B., America BC, Pocket Books, Simon & Schuster, 1994 (ISBN 0-671-67974-0) 21. Bailey, J., Sailing to Paradise, Simon & Schuster, 1994 (ISBN 0-684-81297-5) 22. Thompson, G., American Discovery, Misty Isles Press, Seattle, 1994 (ISBN 0-9612990-4-4)
Tuesday, 8 December 2009
PETROGLYPH OF A SAILING BOAT (Copper Harbor, Upper Michigan, c.1640 BC)
Fig.1 The glyph of this Sailing Boat gives a description of the copper trade with the Old World during the Bronze Age. (Copper Harbor, Keweenaw Peninsula, Michigan, c.1640 BC. Photo by K. Hoenke, Ref.3) -----
Posted by Institute for Megalithic Research at 11:38
Labels: America, ancient, antiquity, copper trade, prehistory, sailing
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I haven't read the whole article,but i believe that this boat was from the first Greek ancient civilization, the Minoan. That civilization arose on the island of Crete at the Bronze Age.They traveled to America , in search of copper.Plutarch was an ancient Greek philosopher who describes at his writings the place where Minoans had settle.If someone compare his data , he will find that his sayings are truly and the place exists. I'm sure and i have read a lot of articles that this is a trireme.ReplyDelete
This is definitely NOT an Mediterranean ship, let alone a Minoan one. It has a single square sail, a raised up bow AND stern and what might be an animal head on the bow post. Thus it is a Norse style ship. The lack of oars and somewhat tubby hull shape suggests that it is a type of ship called a Knarr. This is the same type of ship used by the Greenlanders, such as Leif Ericsson, to discover and explore North America.ReplyDelete
One can clearly deduce Minoans built ships with single sail and no rows as well as row-only ships.
The picture in the fresco illustrates how the sail ship had a raised bow AND stern.
have a look also here:
the resemlance of the 2000BC seal with a ship found at paleocastro is striking.
This comment has been removed by the author.Delete
A Minoan era ship with the characteristic square sail exactly as those depicted in the Thera (Santorini) museum of the 14th c. B.C.Delete
British naval captain, Kevin Menzies, in his book 'The Lost Atlantis' describes even better the Minoan ships, the only global navy that trotted the oceans of this planet.
However, there will always be some who deliberately wish to distort the reality, but in vain.
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You are too modest, yours is a wonderful blog, I'm still working my way through your posts. I can imagine how skilled you are. Sailing ManhattanReplyDelete
The scientific sounding speculation here is unbelievable.Delete
After observing the unprotected carving on relatively soft sandstone in a harsh environment I suspected someones imagination is very creatiive..
Don't let the word 'sand' throw you. Michigan Upper Peninsula Jacobsville sandstone is so hard and durable, they make building from it. Many are in the Houghton-Marquette area.Delete
Erik In order to cross the Atlantic 2500 bc required knowledge of ship building and astronomy, knowledge that only the Minoan Greeks at that time had.ReplyDelete
Copper =Cuprum the Greeks traveled to America for this metal thousand years befor crist ....Delete
in the ancient greek text referring about how the greeks they were in America and that every 10 years they chancing the residens settlers men with new arrivals ! Even Hercules was there ,for several times .... (there was many Hercules)ReplyDelete
even in the mythology, Hercules went to America The Eleventh Labor: the (Golden Apples of the Hesperides) = orange from America !! Hesperia meens east ,where the sun goes downReplyDelete
Diogenes the cynic has been reported about America when he spoke to great Alexander ,and explain to him how can be useful to his people ,he sad to him ....even you conquer the continent which is out of the Hercules pillars and you are not good to your man ,you can't be useful ....ReplyDelete
I found some new strange discoveries about pyramids, elephants,ReplyDelete
ships, gold, starmaps(?) and giants up`n here in the
mountains [could be Carthaginian or Egyptian? or Greek or Minoan?
I do not know.]
i dont know what origin is ,but i do know one thing ,minoans was a hellenic tribe ....ill hope,that you will find out soon ,your discovery from where are originated !!Delete
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